CMHC has released their "Housing Now" report for April for Greater Victoria.
There are currently 4618 active property listings, approximately 550 more than 1 month ago.
Saturday, May 31, 2008
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About Me
- Prairieboy
- Victoria, BC, Canada
- Having been transplanted from the Prairies to the West Coast, I am left bewildered and confused with Victoria's current housing market.
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67 comments:
The Radius project is not dead ... just pining for the fjords :-)
http://tinyurl.com/3zp4g2
http://tinyurl.com/4w9lyy
"Peter Gaby of DFH Real Estate...Gaby said there have also been rumours the development might have to change its design, adding new units and revenue opportunities in order to deal with increased costs, while having to increase the price of the remaining residential units."
Yep, if you can't sell the units now INCREASING the price of the remaining units is a sure way to sell them :-)
In other news another TC article yesterday/today? had BC leading the provinces with a 5.4% drop is restaurant and other entertainment type discretionary spending ... a bigger drop than any other province I think. I can't find the article online, but I think it was in the Business section.
OR
"buy 'em now before the price goes UP"
naive buyers prefered
O/T...
I occasionally skim through Mish's Bog and stumbled on this dandy post with some great Canadian content.
Here is the the hook...
US and Canada Demographic Time Bomb
The charts show the ratio of workers to non-workers will peak within the next 4 years or so in both the US and Canada. Workers vs. pensioners in the US is peaking now. Workers vs. pensioners in Canada has already peaked.
Fewer workers, making less money than their parents will be supporting both social security and more importantly medical expenses (Medicare) for retirees. Retirees who think home prices will keep financing retirement, need to start thinking again.
Home prices are falling and will likely continue to fall for another four years or so.
"Retirees who think home prices will keep financing retirement, need to start thinking again"
right on-------------
Recent Surveys show 82% of boomers net worth is in their homes. Thats an awful big flood of real estate supply that will be coming on stream by soon-to-be retirees. Who are the buyers going to be? The younger generation?
At Victoria's current ridiculous affordability levels, they dont have the money to buy a condo, never mind your big house in Oak Bay.
As the "investor" and speculator driven mutual masturbation stops, demographics will take over. It may take a little while yet, but the days of real estate as a "cant go wrong" investment are drawing to a close.
It's turning into an interesting summer. Looks to me like sales are low, from my PCS observations of houses 4 or more bedrooms in Saanich East, Oak Bay and Victoria, but there are still sales. Most of the sales are "low end," which means in the 6 and 7 hundreds. Very little selling over 900 or a million. But those that are selling are coming within 50 thousand of asking. A lot of those sales are on houses that have already had a price change, so some have been as much as 100 thousand off the original asking price. Nevertheless, these sales seem to be keeping sellers' hopes buoyed up. Have watched many houses go off market for a day, and come back on as new listings. One in particular, down the street from me, is currently listed for 1.8 mil; it's on its third listing, knocking off $100 thousand each time. It's been on the market nearly a year.
I don't know what to make of this. Do people really need to sell, or not? How long are they going to wait to hope to be among the lucky few who sell at these prices? When will the glut of inventory begin to have an impact on price? This has held on much longer than I would have expected, I have to say. I know we have low unemployment here, but as many on this blog have pointed out, a lot of the employment is low- and medium-wage. Guess we have to see when low-ball offers start to get accepted. I haven't seen much of that yet.
Over a QUARTER OF A MILLION homes in UK hit NEGATIVE EQUITY.
HOW many houses are there on this island again? And it's different here because...
victorianna
re:"When will the glut of inventory begin to have an impact on price?" AND
"Guess we have to see when low-ball offers start to get accepted. I haven't seen much of that yet."
My impression ,supported anecdotely by a current Victoria house hunter, is that for some bizarre reason Victorians consider it "crass" or somehow beneath them to put in "low ball" offers preferring to wait for the sellers to drop their price unilaterally.
Some sellers-like your neighbor-will do that as time goes by, but many wont. As a recent seller, I can relate to not wanting to drop my asking price in an information vacuum.
Want prices down? Put in an offer for what you are willing to pay.
Thats what(3d party)realtors are for.
Taking the chance of annoying the realtor (these people are NOT your friends-and are only interested in writing a deal) with a low ball offer is a great big "so what?" and most sellers-certainly those with listings that have been around a while, will at least have something tangible to react to.
I've been waiting so long for the craziness to end, I never considered a time scale for a downward move. From what I've read, seen, and believe it is down hill from here, but much slower than I'd like.
It will be through the summer until people even start to understand housing prices aren't still going up. The next big issue will be when interest rates bump up to 8%ish. This will take some time as well. Then we see what people do with house prices decreasing and house payments increasing.
For me and the little lady we agreed to stay renting the place we like for another 3 years and throw our savings in the bank for the down payment. It hurts to wait so long for the run up to end only to realize the run down is also a hill, not a cliff.
The RE market will be in real trouble by this time next year but there will still be a lot of people counting on the big Owe to save the day. We won't get close to capitulation until two years from now.
Remember the US markets peaked about two years ago, things are getting really ugly now, and they still have a least a year of declines to go.
So put your down payment in a GIC, get some popcorn, and sit back and enjoy.
I don't plan to buy before 2012.
I think things will happen a bit faster Patriotz. We have two major indicators the folks in the US didn't have:
1. The US disaster.
2. Garth and his best seller.
Because of these two major differences, I expect the bottom to hit a lot sooner than even 2010 or 2012, more like next year.
But, and this is the wild card, If Bush/CheneyCo nuke Iran like they're gunning to, and pull another 9-11 to get US sheeple on board, the bottom will hit a week after.
Binab-Stasser first high-profile realtors to bite the dust? (Website's been down for 24 hours now.)
Rats. Sinking ship.
Sorry, meant Binab-Strasser, of course.
If a seller has a goofy price on a house, your realtor should not be reluctant to write up a lowball offer.
If a seller has the proper price and it's the first weekend on the market, no self-respecting realtor will write up a lowball on your behalf.
It's all about context.
No such luck... binab-strasser are back.
Thought the world was ending there for a second.
Not just yet.
If a seller has the proper price and it's the first weekend on the market, no self-respecting realtor will write up a lowball on your behalf.
I thought the seller's agent was legally required to pass on all offers to the seller.
And if a "buyer's agent" refused to write up an offer from me, I'd give him the bum's rush pronto. It's up to the buyer to decide what to offer, not some sponge getting a sales commission.
"If a seller has the proper price and it's the first weekend on the market, no self-respecting realtor will write up a lowball on your behalf"
Really? What is a "proper" price?
Sellers want high prices-Buyers want a low price. The truism from the investment business is: "The market is never wrong"
In the final analysis, prices are determined by market activity, NOT supply statistics, listed comparables,the health of the economy, affordability,Garth Turners book, or these bear blogs. As long as actual activity is at or close to what sellers are asking, prices will not come down. You may be wasting your time on the first weekend but the realtor is required to present a bona-fide offer even if its well below the pre-determined "proper" price.
I think it will take a while for people to accept what's happening.It'd be interesting to take a straw poll of sellers and ask them how they feel about the market right now. People who are buying homes right now are still high on kool aid obviously so we don't even have to ask them.
I think that as soon as the US and Bush are being blamed for messing up our real estate market then you know it's finally hit. When the chips are down America is always to blame.
I can provide you with one anecdote about what a seller is thinking - it's my current landlord, who's selling as we speak. He's clearly a bit nervous - there are a number of houses for sale in this development and he mentioned that this will be a challenge. He also said that he reckons the market has plateaued/stalled in recent weeks. He lives in Vancouver, so may be more aware of the market than Victorians.
"ART VANDELAY"
(a realtor,according to his blog profile web site link)
says:
"If a seller has the proper price and it's the first weekend on the market, no self-respecting realtor will write up a lowball on your behalf."
The guy uses a Seinfeld "nom de plume" and then states that a "self-respecting realtor" would not present an offer that HE feels is too low --which is in direct violation of Real Estate Industry regulations.
Yes, "ART" --"It's all about context"
Financial Post reports Canadian consumer confidence sours
Canadian consumer confidence tumbled in May to its lowest level in at least seven years, the Conference Board of Canada said Monday.
Every region experienced waning levels of confidence with Central and Eastern Canada bearing the brunt of the decline," the Conference Board said.
A Canadian economist comments Confidence drop itself a threat
"Pessimism sells, it spreads rapidly and can be self-fulfilling," he said, warning it can even weaken otherwise healthy economies. But the waning of confidence on top of a weakening economy suggests the short-term outlook will be especially "challenging."
Mohican has an interesting perspective in his recent blog post.
The majority of the BC economy is a farce. We have an economy that is built on ever increasing home values, condo speculation, rampant consumption, and the psychology of prosperity without the actual prosperity. Aside from a couple of bright spots like our agriculture, natural gas and mining sectors the BC economy is a house of cards. When the economic winds get blowing like they are now, our house of cards will fall.
I was happy with my post on HHV's blog, so I'm re-publishing it here:
Prospective Buyers must show patience. It will save them big dollars.
Even if you don't consider waiting for the market to bottom out, you can easily save thousands of dollars by ignoring the new listings, prowling about a bit, checking out the listings that have been hanging around a while, and offering something low but not quite outrageously so.
There are a growing number of deals playing out like this one:
MLS# 243446
#4 - 4295 Carey
3 brdm 2 ba townhouse
Listed April 1 for $429,000
Sold May 29 for $388,500
If that buyer had jumped in earlier, he would have probably spent a good 10% more than he bought it for. And the market hasn't even sank yet.
You WILL NOT get this advice from your realtor, who benefits most from generous offers, quick sales, and higher prices. They will let you fall for the pretty new listings with the new paint, the fancy cabinets the clean faux hardwood floor. And they will encourage you to jump at it before it goes. You can't blame them -- the more emotional you are about the lovely home the more likely they will pocket a quick commission. It's their job; it's what they do.
Slow it down. Don't do something foolish like offer anything near the asking price unless you are 100% SURE the seller has capitulated to the market and priced sharply. Forget the very real fear of negative equity, you do NOT want the agony of buyer's remorse when the guy whose going to live down the hall from you got a deal at least $40K better than yours (ask the folks who bought in the Juliet about six months ago...)
- awum
Does anyone know where I can find information of this detail for Port Alberni?
What the bears have been waiting for: VREB numbers just released.
May 2008
Total sales - 770 (963) - Down from last year
SFH sales - 470 (575) - Down from last year
Condo sales - 168 - Down from last month
Townhouse sales - 71 - Down from last month
Active listings - 4332 - Up 25% from last year
SFH average price - $601,897 - Down from last month
SFH median price - $545,000 - Down from last month
Condo average price - $336,157 - Up from last month
Townhouse average price - $435,058 - Up from last month
April 2008
Total sales - 768 (898) Down 15%
SFH sales - 395
Condo sales - 235
Townhouse sales - 80
Active listings - 3859 (3305) up 17%
SFH average price - $630,295
SFH median price - $558,000
Condo average price - $325,975
Townhouse average price - $420,658
Numbers in (parentheses) are last years numbers.
Joe noted that a significant number of new properties came on the market last month:
"There were 1,850 new listings in May - the highest number for a single month in over 18-years".
TIMBER !!!!
trevor,
the Vancouver Island Real Estate Board comes out with their stats a day or three later than Victoria. Just Google VIREB and you should find.
If there is such a big flood of condos, as there is, why are the sheep and greater fools paying higher prices? Go figure. What idiots. They should lowball those suckers.
A bull over on KIV has written that there is a frenzy for places under $700ish and even more so for places under $500.
Any of you numbers guys seeing a frenzy for these price points?
S2
S2
anyone can write there is a frenzy, as told to them at a barbecue by their cousin the realtor.
However, sales numbers (as opposed to prices) are flat now 3 months running, and that means there is no frenzy anywhere except (arguably) sub $500,000.
Good luck trying to convince people about a frenzy when hundreds of similar properties are available.
Trevor said:
Does anyone know where I can find information of this detail for Port Alberni?
You can find the detailed information you want on Port Alberni here. Much more detail than the usual VREB stuff which I have summarized here
"Good luck trying to convince people about a frenzy when hundreds of similar properties are available."
Well Greg, apparently the frenzy is currently on the westshore.
are you convinced yet?
My Web site Needs Analysis is in the process of being updated. There are links to various statistics sites including the Slideshow Statistics Gallery. The Gallery was updated this afternoon with the latest VREB data.
Take a look at what is happening in the city of Victoria (James Bay, Fairfield, downtown etc.) with single family dwellings. You will be surprised. There will be more updates on different areas like Langford and Sooke in a few days.
Olives and S2:
Your friends on KIV should see this chart.
Sales down and active and new listings way up to multi-year highs.
that is a great chart Roger. I have shared :)
I don't know... Anecdotally the party seems to be picking up again. Two sets of friends of ours are gearing up to take the plunge into home ownership.
One couple managed to get pre-approved for a HUGE amount. (They were looking to rent but couldn't find anything affordable and the realtor they were looking with has convinced them it will be cheaper for them to buy and rent out a suite than to rent.)
And the other friends are combining together but are having trouble deciding who will get the master bedroom and whether they should go for a condo or a house. (And that friend works for a realtor so really you would think would know better if things were changing...)
The rental market is really tight (and expensive) at the moment. Our landlord is driving us nuts and moving up the rent but we can't find anything comparable to what we are paying now and we've only been here a year. It's all just so depressing!
Unhappyrenters
"(And that friend works for a realtor so really you would think would know better if things were changing..."
You would think so yes. Some very vocal Vancouver realtors with blogs confirm the market there is changing and all I am connected to here (directly through good friends) confirm it in Victoria.
It seems pretty obvious with sales dropping and listings rising substantially. It's not a question of "if" anymore - it is happening now.
unhappyrenters,
there's always sheep buying at the top,someone has to be left holding the bag, might as well be someone you know so you can say " I told ya so". ;)
"Any of you numbers guys seeing a frenzy for these price points?"
S2,
probably the RE agent moms stiring up the BS while really fretting about the coming crash and what will they do for a living when all this plays out.
Reading Garth's book right now, he lays it out in straightforward manner,the 40 year mortgages are the equivalent of the subprime and will be the catalyst to the coming correction in the Canadian RE market.
VG,
You are right about the 40 year amortization time bomb. The 40 year amortization mortgage leaves folks with bad re-financing options when rates go up. Variables and fixed term rates will rise in the future due to price inflation.
Why will we have price inflation rising in Canada before long? One word - oil. Transportation costs are rising for commuters, trucking companies, air lines and international shipping from the Far East. Container rates from China have already increased from 3K to today's 8K in a few years.
Oil byproducts are also used in so many products we take for granted: plastics, clothing, footware, foodstuff packaging etc. Then we have next winter's heating costs. Many areas down east use oil furnaces and we only have 6 months until the heating season starts. Businesses will have increased overhead and will pass the costs on to consumers.
The BOC will raise rates fast once they get a sniff of inflation even if the economy is low because that is their mandate and no one wants the 70's again.
Unhappyrenters
So if someone was to write you a cheque for(say)100 grand a year or so from now to stay an "unhappyrenter" before jumping in to the ownership pool, would you do it?
AND- next year,will you and your friends be "happyowners" when your NEW neighbors are bragging about their RE deals, and you guys have hardly paid off any of your bloated mortgages and rates are going up?
That scenario is very possible-- if not probable.
ROGER;
"My Web site Needs Analysis is in the process of being updated."
Awesome! -its new, correct?
Thanks again for your great statistical work and analysis-Victoria RE buyers already owe you (and these bear blog maintainers) a lot--and they dont even know it. cheers, john
http://www.vreb.org/mls_statistics/current_statistics.html
sorry-dont know how to make that a link
finally no spin(well hardly any) from VREB
Boomer,
Thanks for your post. If you want to post a URL link you can use www.tinyurl.com to make it shorter. You can also learn how to post links by going here
Thanks!
Does anyone know if the VIREB MLS sales data includes new developments as well as existing homes?
I believe that it includes everything that is listed on VI's MLS, but do most new developments get listed?
Those numbers are great on vreb. The active listings chart made me think of one of those cartoons where they keep adding paper to the bottom of the earnings chart to graph it off the bottom. Does anyone have the 1998 active listing numbers. It would be interesting to see how close we are to those and if we surpass them at any point this year.
Times Colonist tells the real story on real estate in todays TC
Housing market continues to cool
But there are far more sellers than buyers as the region's housing market continued to cool from last year's record highs.
Gotta love this line:
The real estate board was putting a positive spin on yesterday's numbers, saying it's a more balanced market with more choice for buyers. But everyone is conceding the market is cooling considerably as average and median house prices faded from the record highs of 2007.
Also in todays's paper - more bad news from Duncan:
Money and water woes plague The Cliffs golf resort
The planned residential and golf resort village of The Cliffs Over Maple Bay has run into financial difficulties and is still trying arrange access to water to irrigate its planned 18-hole championship golf course.
A monitor has been appointed by the Supreme Court of British Columbia for The Cliffs, owned by area resident Warren Paulin.
And related news in the business section:
Consumer confidence plummets during May
amazing, a TC journalist with a concience,lol.
Some classic lines in there seperating the facts from the VREB bullcrap.
As far as The Cliffs project goes, if Greg Norman can't sell that place out then what does that say for BM Phase 2 and all the other high end resorts in the planning stages around BC ? This has to send chills thru this part of the industry especially with the headlines on the tourism in a crisis mode.
As an afterthought,who would have spent $30 million plus on a golf course development and still need another $30 million and they had no water rights for irrigation lined up first ? can you say DUH !
VIREB has released the stats for May 2008. Lots of spin in this months release and the price hikes are good old rear view mirror YOY. The PDF news release is here and the actual stats as a pdf are here.
You can see all the stats from 2008 as a slideshow Click the big X to watch full screen.
The shocking thing this month is that inventory is up 30% and sales have plummeted.
There were 451 sales of single family properties in the VIREB area through the Multiple Listing Service®
(MLS®) in May 2008, down from 511 sales in April 2008 and down from 685 sales in May 2007.
VIREB President Subhadra Ghose says a nearly 30% increase in inventory coupled with a moderation in
the number of sales offers further indication of a more balanced market.
Moderation in sales? Balanced market?
The only frenzy I've noticed in Langford is a condo-building frenzy. Lots of open houses, for sale signs and new holes being dug, but not a lot of sold signs. I really hope they finish building all the things they've started, because otherwise my commute is going to be even uglier than it already is.
As far as the US crash and Garth Turner's book having some accelerating effect on our market, I wouldn't count on it. My experience has been that most people are remarkably uninformed. Sickeningly uninformed when you consider that it's the single largest purchase most of them will ever make. They have no idea what fundamentals are, they believe prices can't come down, they'll only level off or climb slower, and at a basic level they have no understanding of debt. All they know is that with a 40 year mortgage and our historically low interest rates, they can afford the monthly payments right now and therefor they think they can afford the house. Or they think that in a few years they'll be able to "trade up" to the house they really want, even though the numbers on that totally don't work.
It's nice to have Garth out there refuting all the BS coming from the pumpers, but I don't think he'll have any effect on the market. The majority of people get their real estate info from their friend who's an agent or from the media's interviews with agents, developers and mortgage brokers.
The one thing I will say about the TC publishing that report in which they actually used the word "spin" in association with the VREB press release, is it is tucked away on the inner pages of the section, and not front page or even front section or even above the fold.
So there is still some downplaying there. I also noticed it wasn't Carla. I wonder when this stuff makes the front page? How about early July when the June numbers are lousy.
Vancouver Global TV it was the headline story and also a main segment on CHEK and both were balanced but the experts were both playing the BS lines.
Ozzie answers to "will prices go down ?", he answered "the rate of increases will go down".
Tony Joe has to admit : " I won't say they can't go down".
Duck and weave all you want,she's coming down,just give it another few months,the table has been set.
VG said:
Duck and weave all you want,she's coming down,just give it another few months,the table has been set.
It was great to hear the MSM talking about cooling, low sales and high inventory. There was some spin but it seemed lame stacked up against the stats. Now that the MSM has switched from being a RE cheerleader to reporting the bad news they will keep it up as the months go by.
Negative RE inuendos and predictions by the MSM will cause a shift in psychology and the market will turn quickly. The local realtors will soon be "educating" sellers on how to set a realistic price.
BTW - remember how Saskatoon was hot a few months ago. I visited a Saskatoon blog, run by a realtor, this afternoon and the jig is up there too. Listings piling on, fewer sales than last year, price reductions and talk of a quick shift downwards. Even the RE agent agreed that things were heading lower this year.
This story is happening all across the country. Garth gets more credibilty every day.
"This story is happening all across the country. Garth gets more credibilty every day."
Party on Garth ! Can you feel it ? :)
I find this blog to be entertaining and informative.
What I'm struggling with is that I need to find a place to live, and the rental market in Victoria / Saanich / Oak Bay is so tight right now that even with great credit and references, I can't find the right place to live. I've been looking for 2 months mostly with Craigslist.
I believe that prices aren't heading upward in the next 5 years, so renting would be way better. However, I may have to settle on buying something, just to find a place to live.
I want a 2 br 2 ba downtown newer condo. If I could find one under $2k per month, I would take it.
Advice?
You want a place with gold faucets or something? Sheesh.
Here's a nice 2 br suite for 1375/mo
I know it's not exactly downtown but really, wouldn't you rather like a bit farther from all those druggies?
I believe that prices aren't heading upward in the next 5 years, so renting would be way better. However, I may have to settle on buying something, just to find a place to live.
Sorry, what is this nonsense? Can't find a rental, so you have to buy?
Try this list, dozens of cheaper rentals:
Here are over 400 2 bedroom rentals.
Thanks for the advice. But, none of the items on that list had the criteria I set out.
What criteria? Besides saying you have $2000 a month to spend and want the place to be downtown?
Try
this
this
this
this
this
this
this
this
this
this
etc
etc
etc
The search took 5 seconds.
BTW, I don't really care if you find stuff to quibble with here, the main point is for anyone else gullible enough to read your post and worry about rentals at that price point, they should know your "concern" about finding a rental is nonsense.
Mission accomplished.
That's BS. There are 1000's of rentals available in Victoria. With all the condos that speculators cannot sell, the rental market is FLOODED. I walked around James Bay today, and almost every building in James Bay posted vacancy signs. Are you in Victoria or Fort McMurray?
Boomer, I'm probably wasting my time with you but in case anybody else reads this blog to learn something:
By "proper" I meant "a price that's realistic based on recent comparables." Sorry I didn't spend an hour parsing every word of my comment.
If you, the buyer, want to lowball a tightly (properly, accurately, etc.) priced house the first weekend it's listed, go right ahead. Submit an offer to the listing realtor. He is obligated under Agency Law and RE Council of BC Rules to present all written offers to his clients/sellers.
If you are engaging the services of a buyers agent, on the other hand, and you think it's remarkably clever to lowball a new listing, go for it. Just don't be surprised if your realtor tells you to pull your head out of your @zz. I'm not stating this to be cruel, only to let you know the reaction you might face. A buyers agent is not obligated (not under the RE Council of BC Rules nor the Laws of Agency) to waste his time on your RE fantasies. However, it is your right to go get another realtor who will indulge you, or to contact the listing realtor directly. That said, sellers are not obligated to respond to any offer, and often don't respond to lowballs. Just pointing out facts, that's all.
If a house is a stale listing, your realtor should be glad to write up a lowball. If he doesn't, switch realtors or contact the listing realtor directly. Sellers at this point are often willing to counter just about any offer that's put on paper. I encourage you to go for it in this case.
I trust that clears up any confusion.
Boomer, I'm probably wasting my time with you but in case anybody else reads this blog to learn something:
By "proper" I meant "a price that's realistic based on recent comparables." Sorry I didn't spend an hour parsing every word of my comment.
If you, the buyer, want to lowball a tightly (properly, accurately, etc.) priced house the first weekend it's listed, go right ahead. Submit an offer to the listing realtor. He is obligated under Agency Law and RE Council of BC Rules to present all written offers to his clients/sellers.
If you are engaging the services of a buyers agent, on the other hand, and you think it's remarkably clever to lowball a new listing, go for it. Just don't be surprised if your realtor tells you to pull your head out of your @zz. I'm not stating this to be cruel, only to let you know the reaction you might face. A buyers agent is not obligated (not under the RE Council of BC Rules nor the Laws of Agency) to waste his time on your RE fantasies. However, it is your right to go get another realtor who will indulge you, or to contact the listing realtor directly. That said, sellers are not obligated to respond to any offer, and often don't respond to lowballs. Just pointing out facts, that's all.
If a house is a stale listing, your realtor should be glad to write up a lowball. If he doesn't, switch realtors or contact the listing realtor directly. Sellers at this point are often willing to counter just about any offer that's put on paper. I encourage you to go for it in this case.
I trust that clears up any confusion.
A buyers agent is not obligated (not under the RE Council of BC Rules nor the Laws of Agency) to waste his time on your RE fantasies.
Which means of course, he is not the buyer's agent at all.
Just at the seller's agent is required to present all offers to the seller, a real buyer's agent would be required to present all offers from the buyer.
The so-called "buyer's" agent is not working for the buyer, he is working for himself, the seller's agent, and the seller.
A buyers agent is not obligated (not under the RE Council of BC Rules nor the Laws of Agency) to waste his time on your RE fantasies. However, it is your right to go get another realtor who will indulge you, or to contact the listing realtor directly. That said, sellers are not obligated to respond to any offer, and often don't respond to lowballs. Just pointing out facts, that's all.
Based on your explanation Art, exactly what purpose is served by a buyers agent who won't present an offer you are prepared to make?
The way you describe the situation, buyer's agents are a joke. If you find a realtor who wants to be your agent, he is obligated to present your offer or he should not try to inject himself into the process.
Seriously, why would anyone waste their time on an agent like that?
And if a listing agent wants to avoid presenting an offer, report him to the BC Real Estate Council!
Seriously, what are these people anyway? Do they have any vested interest in not presenting an offer to the owner of a property? Are they really in a position to block an owner from seeing an offer or to dissuade them from taking an offer because of some other hypothetical offer?
If the lowball offer goes in and the owner doesn't like it, he can ignore it. Preventing the offer from getting to the person who can actually make that decision is unethical.
But realtors often have a sense of entitlement like they not only have the listing, they OWN it. Nonsense.
PS - I don't mind working with a "buyer's agent" as long as I sign no agency agreement and make no promises. If he can get the listing salesperson to split the commission with him, that's fine with me.
The instant a realtor tries to sign me up for some extra services for extra cost, forget it. It's not very hard to get PCS/MLS and to call the listing salesperson directly - not hard at all.
Sometimes I wonder why these so called "Buyer's agents" even exist. Don't the listing salespeople want to collect their full commissions?
But realtors often have a sense of entitlement like they not only have the listing, they OWN it.
Actually the listing agent does own the listing for the duration of the agreement, in the sense that the owner cannot sell the property directly or through another agent during that time.
But having the right to collect the agreed commission on a sale is something completely different from having a say in the price or other terms of the sale. That belongs to the seller alone.
"Art Vandaley"
whatever.
hows biz?
Anonymous,
My advice is to look at the Friday and Saturday TC, not just Craigslist. I moved to a new rental in February and answered a bunch of ads from both. I got almost no response from the Craigslist ads, and the two houses I ended up looking at were both from newspaper ads.
Another option is to contact some of the property management companies and tell them what you're looking for. The downside to that is that they're businesses, so you have to talk to them during the week. There was one place we were interested in but the property manager didn't get back to us until after the weekend, by which point we'd already taken a place.
I emphatically agree with the advice to avoid Craigslist. I just successfully concluded a search for a new rental, and I used the T-C classifieds, the agencies (Pemberton Holmes and Firm Management were good), and ajiji (sp?) dot com. I think I looked at Craigslist a little but the people seemed to be timewasters and even more amateurish than most people playing at being landlords in this town.
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